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Grumpy, yet verbose.
Showing posts with label treasure. Show all posts
Showing posts with label treasure. Show all posts

Saturday, November 30, 2024

All That Glitters


 

Continuing the earlier thoughts about gold in classic D&D…

Over the years, one overall trend in my perspective on playing or running TTRPGS is an increasing deference to the Rules As Written (RAW). That’s not to say I never house rule any more, I do quite often, but it has become more selective and less of a go-to move. There was a time, and this blog contains ample evidence of it, that I would seize upon some game mechanic or suchlike and figure that my decades of experience meant I ‘knew better’ and could fix D&D. Shockingly, it wasn’t quite so simple.

As a result, I have seen more and more concepts and house rules and home-brew charts slip out of my metaphorical gaming Trapper Keeper and out of use when I plan or play a game. A “side effect” of this is watching other folks online work through similar thought processes about the same issues I was trying to “fix.” Often, I watch them arrive at a similar place to mine in real-time, as conversations evolve on chat servers and message-boards with other members of the online groups.

One common bugaboo that seems to come up over & over is coinage. Specifically in two main areas: gold vs silver as the standard denomination, and why coins weigh as much as they do (encumbrance). I’ve toyed with things like the “Silver Standard” (changing over to SP being the default coin) in the past. I’ve since come around to just using gold as in the books. I’ve had a similar progression of ideas regarding coin weight and size. I wanted to talk a bit about my rationales here and I’d like to address the second issue first (as it seems simplest): the matter of encumbrance.

In Basic/Expert D&D, 10 coins weighs a pound (16 oz., or around half a kilo). Now, most of imagining this might say “Whoa there! Those must be some HEFTY discs!” and you wouldn’t be wrong. I believe -and if I ever get the chance to hang out with Zeb Cook again, I hope I remember to ask him- that the numbers were chosen for ease of calculation over any concerns about realism.

That said, I get how it rankles some folks. 100 coins weighing ten pounds seems like it would make shopping around town quite exhausting. For those folks who decide to make the rate things like 20cn/lb or even more, as long as other weights for equipment, etc. are appropriately adjusted, go right ahead.

For myself, I tend more towards things like OSE’s basic encumbrance rules where the weight of most gear is ignored and a character’s movement is determined by how much (if any) armor they are wearing and whether they are carrying treasure. It makes things like equipment choices important, and takes into account the difficulties of hauling loot out of the dungeon without bogging down into every item’s individual weight. Obviously this requires ad hoc rulings on occasion. A recent example in a discussion group centered around carrying a ladder into the dungeon and what it would weigh. My suggestion was to treat it like having treasure in hand (an extra load) without having to get into debates on ‘how heavy is a 10’ wooden ladder’?

The caveat I would make is that D&D coins should be markedly heavier than modern coins, now whether that’s because a modern coins are less dense (the US Quarter hasn’t had silver in it since before I was born), or because the fantasy coins are just bigger, the fact remains if the money is supposed to contain the valuable ores in question, it’s going to be made of dense metals instead of modern alloys. Make them heavy enough that hauling a bunch out of the dungeon is at least a bit of a chore.

The other issue that is frequently brought up “the silver standard” or some variation of it. I should make it clear that I am talking about folks changing D&D’s gold piece default via a house rule, not about separate games with a silver standard baked-in from square one. In a nutshell, this is house ruling that silver is the default currency instead of gold, so prices in the equipment lists are in SP instead of GP. Most, but not all, versions of this house rule also make 1SP=1XP.

Again, I understand the reasoning. I’ve had similar ideas myself. Different people have posited different defenses of the silver standard house rule over the years, but as far as I can see, it boils down to complaints about “realism.” The argument tends to go along the lines of “10 gold coins weighs a pound, that means there are literally HUNDREDS OF POUNDS of gold in that chest. That’s nuts! There isn’t enough gold in the world for there to be so much treasure like that lying around! If there was, then gold would be worthless!” Or words to that effect. Fair enough, I suppose. But let me offer a few points in defense of why I use the gold standard as is in the rules.

Firstly, it’s easier to not change a rule than to change it. It’s how the game was designed, it’s how all the adventures and supplements use it, so it’s less headache for me to just leave it alone.

Secondly, the game is designed around exploring dungeons to find treasure. Getting past the traps and monsters to that chest of loot is literally and figuratively the players’ reward. The game mechanics of the treasure are irrelevant to the emotional satisfaction (aka “Fun”) the players get from their success. One of the ways I can make that better for them is in describing the scene well, and gold is just more evocative of wealth than silver. It’s just cooler looking. Look how ubiquitous it is in popular culture. Pirates’ chests are full of gold! The dragon doesn’t sit on a pile of silver!

Thirdly, Dungeons and Dragons was not created to emulate anything remotely like a real-world economy. Some editions, settings, and supplements have taken whacks at it, but originally no. It’s a fantasy game. Also for what it’s worth, it’s unlikely a fantasy/medieval gold coin is very pure. It could easily be 10K or less. Besides, all money is fake. It’s an agreed upon delusion that lets economies happen, so as long as folks agree that one “gold” coin can buy X amount, then it’s all good.

Lastly, the dragon sitting on the hoard is realistic, but what the coins are made of is too far??

Finally, let me just remind folks I’m talking about the games that I run. Other GMs’ mileage may vary, but for me, chasing after some standard of simulationism just leads to diminishing returns on the enjoyment of the game.

Thursday, February 11, 2021

REF: Old McHydra had a Farm

I'm trying to keep the posting momentum going. so now it's time for some randomized encounter hijinks! For this entry, I chose the wilderness tables and randomly picked the terrain type and got "Inhabited." For creature type, the dice sent me to the Dragon subtable (eek!) and we ended up with an eight-headed Hydra!


Now, the term inhabited can mean a lot of different things. As this is a "wilderness" encounter, I chose not to go with an actual village or town. I decided I liked the idea of open farmland. Still rural, but with a population around. Now, if we're basing things on a medieval style world, a lot of farming lands were surrounded by much denser wilderness. People worked fields that had been cleared from deep forests and the like. 

So in this scenario, rather than the hydra just roaming around open ground stomping farmhouses "Dunwich Horror" style, I'm imagining that it originated from a deeper, darker part of the adjacent forest. Perhaps it had hatched there some time ago and had been growing in size. At first, the young creature could find enough to eat on the smaller animals that lived in the woods with it: birds, rabbits, maybe even the occasional deer. Now, however, it has grown too large and its appetite too great for such fare. The scent of nearby livestock has drawn it out of concealment.

Maybe traveling PCs are sleeping in a farm's hayloft one night when it attacks the barn, seeking a fat cow for dinner. Or maybe the party is traveling on horseback when the hydra charges out of the trees after one of their mounts. This could lead to a fast one-and-done encounter with the creature, or it could lead the party to a more involved adventure. How did the hydra come to be in the woods when the locals had never seen one around those parts before? Maybe, somewhere deep in the trees there is the body of some adventurous type who had acquired the egg but died in the wilderness. The hydra has treasure type B, so perhaps the loot is on the body? Tracking it back to its lair could be profitable.


Monday, May 6, 2019

REF: Red Dragon

More fun with random tables, kiddies! This time it's wilderness. Some rolling of the dice brings us to barren mountain terrain and a result of Dragon, Red. Yikes!

Okay, let's not panic just yet. Some more rolling (and a random dragon name from fantasy name generator) Gives us the following:

Vulluth the Red
AC: -1
HD: 10 (40 hp)
Move: 90 (30') Fly 240' (80')
Att: 2 claws/1 bite/ breath
Dmg: 1d8/1d8/3d8/special
# App: 1
Save: F10
Morale: 10
AL: C

Vulluth is awake, can speak, and cast spells

Spells:
1st Level - Detect Magic, Charm Person, Sleep

2nd Level - Detect Evil, Phantasmal Force, ESP

3rd level - Invisibility 10' radius, Hold Person, Lightning Bolt


So 40 hit points is the first thing that jumps out at me. I'll be honest, if I were placing this dragon as a non-random encounter in my game, I'd boost that total a bit (but keep it within the 10HD cap of 80). This means his breath weapon is going to be much less scary than it could be. He's still got great melee attacks & damage, though. But to be honest, even though they were also rolled randomly, I think Vulluth's real puissance is his spell list.

Other than his detection spells -and maybe ESP- every one of these is combat applicable. Invisibility 10' radius is usually meant to make a party invisible, but it will work for the dragon as well (yes, it still works on the caster even if he is bigger than 10' across) . Imagine Vulluth hearing the party approach and turning invisible. I would be applying some surprise checks, not to mention save penalties to the rolls vs dragon breath that first round!

Sleep, Charm Person, and Hold Person are all classics. Granted a higher level party may dodge the snooze bullet, but the others can eliminate potent combatants right away. Phantasmal Force is also a great combat utility spell.ESP might require a bit more creativity, but knowing what your foe is thinking can't hurt.

The best part about Lightning Bolt isn't even the damage. It's the idea that the PCs are expecting fire attacks and then ZAP!  Or maybe I'm just a jerk DM.

So the party (or some of them) manage to slay the wyrm. Let's look at the loot!

TREASURE:
10,000 cp
3,000 pp
6 pc jewelry-
  • 1,300gp
  • 1,200gp
  • 2x 1,000gp
  • 2x 800gp
30 gems-
  • 10x 10gp
  • 5x 50gp
  • 5x 100gp
  • 7x 500gp
  • 3x 1000gp
Magic-

  • Potion of ESP
  • Cursed scroll (re-roll prime requisite)
  • Scroll of Resist Fire (clerical)
  • 3x +2 arrows
  • Boots of Traveling and Leaping
  • Ring of Invisibility

Not a terrible haul. Nearly 30K in cash (and XP) from the hoard. The magic has some fun items, especially the ring and boots. The cursed scroll makes me smile (see "jerk" above) and some thief or elf type is going to love getting a couple +2 arrows in their quiver.




Thursday, September 20, 2018

Magic Mart: Buying/selling magic items




I am not a fan of how later D&D editions (particularly 3.X) reduced magic items to a simple commodity. I get that some of the rules about crafting costs and times were a bit subjective before, but I fall into the camp that magic should be magical. 

That being said, players will want to find ways to spend their loot and one of the most useful things for an adventurer is better gear. Once the fighter has bought plate mail and silver arrows, his upgrade options in the standard price list are a bit thin on the ground. I sometimes do have the odd item or two for sale in towns. Usually it's things like potions or scrolls and other "limited" magics.

In the current campaign I am running, the PCs have managed to get through two adventures, both times clearing a fair amount of coin; enough that the PCs that have survived since session one are at or near level 3 (except the elf). The nature of the adventures limited the chance to find items, though. I am thinking of giving them a chance to acquire some magical shinies. The question is how to decide what's available in such situations without being utterly arbitrary.

The idea I am currently playing with is based roughly off of the Treasure Type Tables on X43. The larger the town or city, the better the chance of any magical items for sale. Likewise, certain types of items are more often found than others. A first pass at this for a typical BX fantasy setting (not particularly high or low magic) might look something like:

Small Town or Village: 15% Any 1
Medium-sized Town: 25% Any 2 + 1 potion + 1 scroll
Large Town or Small City: 1d4 scrolls, 30% Any 3 + 1 sword, armor, or weapon
Large Metropolis: 1d4 scrolls, 2d4 potions, 35% Any 4

It's up to the individual DM to decide where a given population in his setting falls on this list. As examples, I would say a town like Threshold in Karameikos would be a medium town, whereas Specularum might be a small city. You might also tweak how you roll based on things like how much trade or traffic a location sees or if adventurers are common there.

In my campaign, the party is currently in a town of 3,000-4,000 people; what I would consider medium-sized in my setting.  But, it is also a busy river port that sees a good deal of trade and adventurer types are not uncommon here (a name-level mage has a tower just outside the town walls). Therefore, I have chosen to roll as a large town/small city.

Roll results are as follows:

1d4 Scrolls = 1. The % dice came "00"! Which is a nice treasure map to 5d6 gems and 2 magic items. Buuuut, the party is already following one map and I am trying to generate magical items here. So I re-rolled that and got a Protection from Magic scroll.

% dice for other magic = 30 exactly (!) So 3 items plus 1 arm or armor. I rolled a d3 to see which and got a 3, which is a non-sword weapon.

The percentile rolls for the specific items came up as follows:

  • A potion of Giant Control
  • +1 Spear
  • A Staff of Healing Staff of Striking (18 charges)
  • A MU/Elf spell scroll of 3 spells. This came up as one 4th, one 1st, and one 2nd level spell. I rolled randomly (d12s) and got Charm Monster, Ventriloquism, and Detect Evil.

Now this is a pretty impressive haul, and frankly a lot more magic than I like to be just lying around. If I want to let these results stand, I need to make sure these items aren't too easy to get. Namely, they need to be expensive or require the PCs do something to get them.

The protection scroll has a lot of potential utility, but it's one use only, so I will peg that at 1000gp.

I decided to roll randomly for what type of giant the potion can control. There are six kinds of giants and I rolled a 4: Fire Giant. This is pretty neat but of limited usefulness. Commanding 1d4 fire giants even for only an hour could be pretty epic, though! Let's say 1000gp

The +1 spear is nice, but is just a bonus to hit and damage. 1000 gp should cover that.

The healing staff is another matter. I will invoke DM fiat and say this is too powerful to be simply bought in town, ready to go. This item essentially allows a cleric to cast a Cure Light Wounds once per day on each PC and uses no charges! This sort of thing would be snapped up by one of the temples in town and not readily available to wandering murder hobos. As with the map, I re-rolled and the result was a Staff of Striking with 18 charges. This is a nice item, but limited by who can use it (clerics) and of finite charges. I will judge it roughly equivalent to the spear and set its price at 1000 gp as well.

The spell scroll would be pretty expensive. I have previously established house rules about spell books and scrolls, so using those I can pin its price tag at 3,500gp (7 spell levels total at 500 gp per). Since they are all on one scroll, it's an all or nothing price.

Now, this is a pretty generous haul, but the rolls were with them. The odds favored 2-3 scrolls and that's it. I would also argue that it would be a while (a month or two at least) before this particular town might be "restocked." Over the course of a campaign, I would see this as balancing out. I'm not sure it's the perfect system. I still needed to intervene a little to maintain what I see as a correct balance, but isn't that what DMs are supposed to do?


Friday, April 13, 2018

The BX setting (part 3)

OK, I am wrapping this up. Seriously!

To finish up my musings about settings for a setting representative of the Basic/Expert game, I wanted to touch on just a few more topics: Resources, Risks, and Rewards.

Resources

For me, and many grumpy old-schoolers, managing your resources is no small part of classic D&D play. Heck, I even created products specifically to make it easier to incorporate into tabletop play. Rules like encumbrance, searching times, movement rates, and light source duration all lead to some real cost/benefit decisions being made: Do we take the time to search every room? How many torches did you bring? Do we hire someone to carry our extra stuff?

Now all these sound more game mechanics-related than setting, but bear with me. A BX world is a place where not only do decisions like those above matter, they matter because it's a world where dungeon crawls are a relatively common thing. Ancient labyrinthine ruins, extensive subterranean caves, mysterious catacombs, they practically flourish in a BX world. Of course this is true for many other versions of D&D, too. The point is the characters live in a world where someone, at some point, decided that it was a good idea to carve out an underground lair that looked like this.


There are weird, even zany places in a BX world. Maybe they are ancient ruins or a mad wizard's tower, but those that decide to brave those places prepare for mapping long corridors, regular booby traps, hidden passages, and foul monsters lurking around corners. Which brings us to...

Risks

Whether it's claw, sword, or spell, PCs face most of their risks in combat. The BX world is one where monsters are real and your character is going to have to fight for his life at some point, if not many times. A BX world allows for the possibility of a dragon flying over your head as you travel the King's Road or for a hill giant to be walking down a city street! This is a fantasy world. 

That being said, most of these creatures are monsters, not NPC or PC "playable" races (BtB at least). But "monster' does not always equal "enemy." A decent reaction roll and the appropriate language slot can result in parley or even friendly communication. 

Combat can be de-emphasized and other aspects of play can be focussed upon, but by default at least the threat of violence is deeply ingrained into a D&D setting. What can give this a more "BX feel?" Well, BX is a fairly lethal flavor of D&D. PCs tend to be fragile with their lower hit dice and -by the book- 0 hit points being dead. Even mid to high level PCs can be killed fairly easily, and morale rolls can lead to the better part of valor being exercised by monster and hireling alike. Compare that to some of the later versions of the game and you can easily picture a world where life can be a bit cheap and those that live by the sword are likely to pick their battles carefully as well as try to squeeze every advantage out of a situation. And once the battle is over, they will be sure to get as much of the spoils as possible to offset the risks.


Rewards

XP for GP. That brief statement tells me this is a world where its inhabitants gain influence and become more competent by getting as much as they can for as little risk as possible. It's not the slaying of the monster, it's the treasure it was guarding. A BX world is a place where foul humanoids have piles of loot stolen from victims or looted from old castles they now infest. Half-rotted coin pouches lie among the bones in the lairs of terrifying trolls and gigantic spiders. And that axe of antique design wielded by the bugbear chieftain? It has a +2 enchantment on it. 

This is a world of coin-filled coffers and magic swords. Of scrolls containing mystic spells or treasure maps. Of idols with a single ruby eye the size of a golf ball. Of dragon hoards, staves of power and magical rings. The DM may not wish to flood his world with  magic items but in a BX world, such things exist and even leaving it to the random treasure charts the PCs will encounter at least some of them. 

Assuming the characters live long enough, it's also a world where lowly murder-hobos and would-be heroes might accrue enough wealth, fame, and connections to become lords (and ladies) of the land themselves. It's not a place where everything is 100% fixed sociopolitically. Maybe there are wars, or dynastic struggles, or rebellions and invasions. Maybe there are young nations that are still growing. The point is even if your PC started as a turnip farmer, he could one day be a knight in a keep with a fiefdom of his own to rule.

Wrapping Up


What does all this mean? Have I answered the question? Well, no. probably not. But I don't think that it's a question that can be answered definitively. What I do think I've accomplished is to work through some concepts of what I think a setting should or shouldn't have to be a good fit for Moldvay/Cook. 

And maybe it's done a bit that for you, too.

Friday, December 8, 2017

Typing Treasure

One my favorite quirky bits of old-school D&D is Treasure Type. Cross-referencing the letter code to the table and rolling each category to see what goodies the monster has is great fun (to me). Thumbing through, as I glanced at TTs N and O, I was struck with how specific they are:  No coins of any denomination, no gems or jewels, but N gives a 40% chance of 2-8 potions, whereas O has a 50% chance of 1-4 scrolls; and only those items! What's more, no creature in the BX rulebooks has either of these listed TTs. The only creature I did find? The Kopru, from X1's Isle of Dread, and it has TT: I + N

Another Otus gem!

"I" is another interesting Type, by the way. In the core books, it only appears with Rocs. It emphasizes platinum and gems with a slight chance of one magic item. I guess when you can eat elephants, you can be picky about the shiny objects that litter your nest.

But back to N & O, I wonder what creature(s) the gang at TSR were thinking of when creating those listings. Someone (something) that had ready access to potions or scrolls, obviously. Perhaps alchemical-inclined or spellcasting monsters of some sort?


Monday, October 9, 2017

Curious Objects: Potion of Treasure Finding


This is a very simple item with a very short description:

"The user may, when concentrating, detect the direction and distance of the largest treasure within 360' (unless blocked by lead)."

I don't know that I've ever seen this one used. Granted, there's only a 2% chance of randomly rolling this result on the potions table, but I've certainly never placed it deliberately either.

Like other potions, it last for 7-12 turns, so it can be useful in triangulating a bit, but if you're moving at "dungeon exploration speed" and run into any kind of obstacles, you might not get to the loot before the potion wears off.

No, what I find most interesting about this item is its existence at all. Sure, detecting gold and gems makes sense in D&D, but offering the ability as a potion is telling to me. The idea that it isn't a spell, but anyone (e.g. a thief) can quaff this and scry the location of the "largest treasure" underscores the idea that classic games like BX are about exploration, not combat. Finding the treasure gets you more XP than killing the monster. Wasting time checking every door and risking random encounters is not the preferred method. Home in on the reward and get out. You can always come back and check the next area after the Teeth of Gwalhur are safely back at the base camp.


Saturday, August 19, 2017

Curious Objects: Treasure Maps (scrolls)

"Piranah Lagoon" is the name of my Slickee Boys cover band!


Now, maps are hardly unheard of in fantasy role-playing games. They are a classic trope as well as an essential dungeoneering tool. Treasure maps in particular are a staple of both fantasy fiction and adventures. What I want to talk about for a bit is the random treasure result under the Scrolls section.

When I found my way to BX many years ago, I was tickled that scrolls could be more than just extra or new spells. The two main twists were the protection scrolls and the maps. The idea that the rules included a mechanism for randomly dropping a plot hook into the party's collective lap was quite remarkable (to me).

Fully a quarter of all scrolls found are maps, according to the random table in Cook Expert, the book suggests the DM make up several maps ahead of time and have them handy to use as props for when/if the party finds one.

In the Basic rules, the description suggests that the map lead to a treasure somewhere within the same dungeon, but the Expert rules rightly expands it to include possible wilderness travel. The tables results scale for the size of the treasure to be found, as well as having magical items as loot. There are also suggestions for placing monsters as guardians.

Two things occur to me off the bat: Firstly, a treasure map is a great way to delay a party from getting hold of too much wealth at once. Of course the loot from the dungeon isn't light! You just haven't gone to the haunted tower on that map to retrieve the fabled Emerald of Kun Par yet! This can be especially useful if you need a little extra time to figure out some things in the game.

Secondly, it's a great segue into the next adventure that saves you trying to get the players hooked. They know where a fabulous magical item (or pile of cash) is supposed to be, they just need to get their collective butts in gear and start walking.

Of course, they could try selling the map (for a fraction of the loot's value). But that could lead to even more plot hooks and complications. In a fun way!

Monday, November 19, 2012

RMA (ish): NPC parties

Cook's Expert Rules typically tries not to step on the toes of its predecessor, Moldvay's Basic. One area where BX does sort of repeat itself is with NPC parties.

Each book provides rules for the DM to use in creating a group of NPCs. Because of the change in PC power levels, things get ramped up a notch in Expert. Moldvay allows for up to 3rd level NPCs, whereas Cook gives rules for up to 12th.

I find both books' sections on this very interesting reading. Not just for encounter design, but also for the steps given for creating the parties. There is a lot of randomness in the process. I find that refreshing, though. Sometimes random results are the most interesting. There's a chaotic fighter and lawful cleric in the group? How does that work? Especially if one is significantly more powerful than the other. This can make for some interesting moments at the gaming table.

Fun fact: NPC spells are supposed to be assigned randomly! I love it when characters (NPC or PC) have some of the more unusual spells.

Another interesting part is the assigning of magic items to the NPCs. In Basic, you roll on a treasure type for the NPCs. In Expert, a % chance is assigned (determined by level) for each NPC to possess a given type of item. The fact these non-PCs are walking around with magic loot (and using up that cool wand's charges) should get the PCs interested.

I think a rival group of adventurers is an awesome encounter, and provides a lot of possible campaign hooks for a group. Even if the PCs don't end up fighting them, having another group of murder-hobos out there after the treasure is a powerful incentive to get off their duffs and DO something!

I have half a mind to assemble an NPC party by these rules and use them as pre-gens for my next adventure. The result could be fun!

Friday, April 20, 2012

A passage worth remembering

From Cook's Expert D&D (page 43):
"Often the treasure will be in unusual and possibly hard-to-recognize forms. Valuable silks, wines, rare books, small statues, furs, and tusks are only some of the forms such treasure could take. A party should always look for clues that odd items might be more valuable than they appear." 
 Food for thought, anyway.